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Poetry Showcase [Political] Moderators for this section: Weaver, ochsterboxter, CadenzRime, Lingua Pura, ososment, carolynrn, Inker

FINDING PEACE IN FORGIVING

Outline: World unification and peace is a dream, but we don't know how to realise this dream. Perhaps the way is through forgiveness
Why: To express an idea, to awaken fellow human beings
Review: honest opinion and an introspective feedback
When we talk about achieving world peace,
Creating situations where all hostilities cease,
One must realize that such a major concept
Arises only if we forgive, and our anger release.

Without forgiveness, there is nothing but hate,
Believe in the divine, trust in self and your fate,
When you forgive, it helps you more than others,
As you heal your wounds, you reach a joyous state

Anger, violence bring only more blood and sorrow
Give unto others more than what you do borrow,
If our children must wake up to a new world again,
Let us make it safe, so mankind might see the morrow.

Let us vow to rise, above petty thoughts, greed and fear,
Each of us is a living God, let us all come more near,
Throw away what is bad, hold on to what is really dear,
Forgiveness, acceptance shows the way, loud and clear.
Author Explanation: World peace and a world without violence is almost everyone's dream. A world without boundaries would be great, and filled with peace. But no one really knows where to start and how to achieve this Utopian state. External peace and happiness starts with internal peace, and the ability to let go and forgive, without which no bliss, or joy is possible
BrianRobertNeal
[Thu May 08, 2008 4:52 pm] Hi
My late father in law (a Methodist Minister) believed that you can only forgive the penitant. Too often the transgressor feels no such emition. Forgiveness did not stopp the NAZIs,

Brian

Please see a related piece of mine.

The reviewer would appreciate your comments on: A plea for objectivity:Retitle and edit
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Dakota
[Thu May 08, 2008 5:10 pm]
An incredibly important issue. I like the warmth and encouragement you've created in this piece so it becomes an issue of collective responsibility rather than one of you lecturing others - which this poem could have become.

Well done Smile
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Chris Ripple
[Thu May 08, 2008 7:05 pm]
Hmmmnnn... Not sure what I think about this ? I mean it's a nice thought and ought to be applauded but somehow I remain the realist...
As for the poem, it makes it's point but unfortunately doesn't address the key issue... That people are stupid.
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'He was born with a gift of laughter... And a sense that the world was mad'

Rafael Sabatini
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Inker
[Thu May 08, 2008 10:31 pm]
Hello,

It would be a grand world if all got on and we loved one another, but the rot has set in and it will take a lot of getting rid of the bad before anything good could be achieved...

You only have to walk down the road and it's raised voices, cars speeding past, everything has progressed beyond the calm zone for a lot of people.

I hope that all the badness would end, but I doubt that will happen for a long, long time.

Enjoyed the message, doubt it will come to fruition.

Bestest
Inker
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Piya
[Fri May 09, 2008 5:24 am]
An important thought,well expressed...
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scarletdancer
[Fri May 09, 2008 3:22 pm]
Well stated, if only... But I think there are too many levels of wrongness that a mere human is not capable of forgiving. And if they were, would the sinner be repentant and trusted to not offend again? A very thought provoking poem which conjures up many thoughts. Excellent. cheers, scarlet
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Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as a heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors.
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pvvaidyanathan
[Sat May 10, 2008 8:43 am]
I personally feel that what a sinner will do or not do, is in his hands, not ours. I can only forgive, forget, lessen my load, and move on. If I were to remember each and every problem or insult that I have suffered, and if I were to agonize over them, then this one lifetime is not enough. Happiness and peace are destinations that depend on you shedding as much load from the past as possible. The more load you shed, the more lighter you become, the more you forgive and forget, the closer you are to happiness. It is our own burdens that pull us down, keep us rooted in misery and unhappiness. The difference between a happy and sad person is not in the amount of problems that they have--it is in how quickly a person can get over them and move ahead. Unless you want to be where you are, anchored by all your worries, anguish, remorseful thoughts, thoughts of revenge and hatred, anger etc. These are the flotsam and jetsam of life that have to be thrown away, if you need to reach a higher altitude.
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Chris Ripple
[Sat May 10, 2008 12:52 pm]
Excuse the cynicism but didn't someone say once that 'The meek shall inherit the earth ?' I'm afraid that unless you want to be left in the 'Yes, six feet of it...'
then you have to adopt a protection of some sorts to get you through the day and I for one am not interested in 'turning the other cheek' for somebody to batter that one as well. I think most people would think that once was enough ?

Be interested to know whether the writer thinks that getting rid of all the worlds religions and all the religious baggage that the bullying and fanatic (all of 'em) keep trying to inflict upon us mere mortals is part of the thought process 'cos I can tell you now it ain't doing nothing for crime in the inner cities, it ain't doing nothing for
the people of Zimbabwe, and it certainly ain't doing anything for the people of Burma or Lebanon ?

The real world or some fantasy utopia ? Try telling those who have lost everything, homes, loved ones, children, that they don't need that 'flotsam and jetsam' in their lives...
I wouldn't dare to... I'm not that arrogant.
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'He was born with a gift of laughter... And a sense that the world was mad'

Rafael Sabatini
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Andmymare
[Sat May 10, 2008 1:14 pm]
Hello pvvaidyanathan,

Although I can't quarrel with your general thesis, which seems to be that world peace depends on individuals learning to forgive others, any and all others, and that the benefit of forgiveness devolves first on the forgiver, and then spreads out from there, the forgiver halting the petty or great wrong by not continuing it in any sphere,

the form of your poem is a bit clunky. By that I mean, what it has of rhyme seems forced, with strange inversions and odd phrases; 'our anger release', 'do borrow', 'more near', for instance. I can't pick out any regular rhythm, and there is for me an air of generality or vagueness about it. You hop from 'we' to 'one' to 'you' in this general appeal, which then switches to a description of the nature and action of 'forgiveness'. You've couched it in a rhetoric that falls a bit flat for me, not in its motive, but in bland words whose over-use strips them of power to rile, convince or describe.

The subject though, lies close to my animal heart, somewhere in the region of my solar plexus as I sit here. I notice that the discussion you've stirred up is sincere, but that's because of the 'major concept' behind your poem, and people's responses to that. If that is what you want, you've succeeded. If however, you've gotten bitten by the writing bug in such a way that you want to write better poetry, I wonder if we might discuss scansion, rhyme, and/or abstraction.

I don't think directness and honesty is something to be forgiven, but if I've poked you with my review, please take it as one of the mere stranger's elbows on a crowded poetry-train.

Regards,
Andmymare
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pvvaidyanathan
[Sat May 10, 2008 3:41 pm]
Thank you for your responses. No, there is no feeling of hurt or being insulted. When I write about forgiveness, how can I even remotely feel hurt? You are within your right to say what you think is right, and I am in my right to react or not react. As far as being poetically ineffecient, well, I make no contentions that I'm a poet of any standing. I write what comes to my mind, and try to put it in a format best known to me. Poetry is supposed to give one total freedom to express one's innermost thoughts. How can total freedom come, when one has to follow rules and regulations? If I had to stick to correct phrases, rhymes, format etc, if I had to write good, acceptable poetry, then I am better off solving mathematical problems, where there is a structure, well defined rules, and a correct answer. Poetry, my friends, should come directly from the heart; the mind has no role to play, except to supply words from its memory. If your mind starts to overrule your heart while writing poetry, then we will be filled with poetry that is mechanical, repetitive, and without the true emotions that arise ( or should arise) in a poet's heart.

Coming to forgiveness, well, if you feel that it is better to harbour anger and hatred, and to respond to violence with more violence, then I wish you all the best in your venture. I have no problem with what you do with your life; it is for you to decide what is best for you. My own experience has taught me that we are all victims--victims of our ignorance, victims of beliefs, victims of conditionings, victims of our traditions, victims of the the environment in which we have grown up--and that ninety nine percent of the thoughts and beliefs that we uphold are invariably those that we have picked up from someone or somewhere else. A man who is violent is either mentally disturbed or deranged (and hence he cannot be held responsible for his actions) or he sincerely believes that what he is doing is right. One must be able to block out or filter all that we have acquired from others, and we must be able to think for ourselves as to what is correct or what is not.

Most hatred and anger also stems from the fact that we are not tolerant of others and the way they lead their lives. We often believe that what we are doing is the right thing, and what others are doing is not. The other person, is no different from we, for he too believes the same thing. If two people are against each other, and are out to destroy each other, then the issue can end only when one or both of them are finished. But, if one of them were to back off, and let go, then the other cannot continue in the same vein, for a very long time. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction (Newton's third law), but if one were to not react, then, without an opposite reaction, the original action loses steam, and cannot self propogate itself. For example, you have a tiff with someone who is overtaking you on the road. You shout, he shouts, you come to blows, things get out of hand, and one fellow gets seriously injured, or gets killed. Now, if during the fight, if one of the fellows were to back off, say sorry, the other cannot go on fighting endlessly. He usually doesn't know how to respond to your sorry, cools down, swears a little, tells you to be careful next time, and goes his way. In the end, no damage is done, except to the ego, which can take lots of beating without getting damaged.

Hope I have not bored you with my thoughts. But I don't think there is any other way, except to bury one's ego, and listen to one's heart. And the poetry I write also comes from this heart, which is not bound by rules or regulations. If I don't have freedom in my own heart, what freedom do I have in my life in this world?
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A child specialist from India, who has been bitten by the writing bug, for which I'm told there is no cure.
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Shelley
[Sat May 10, 2008 4:06 pm]
What admirable sentiments. If only it were so easy to forgive. What if the transgressor doesn't ask for forgiveness, doesn't want to be forgiven? We are still to forgive them and give them a pat on the head?
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Andmymare
[Sat May 10, 2008 9:49 pm]
pvvaidyanathan;

I guess that we are at an impasse. Do you think that Bhaktivinode Thakura left his mind behind in his expression of devotion? Do you think that Rabindranatha Thakura paid no attention to how to frame his innermost feelings and thoughts in such a way as to be received clearly and with impact? Do you think that Gandhi paid no attention to every word he used, measuring with his mind how to reach and incite the hearts of his listeners? I can only hope that you are not a musician, and eschew the 'rules' of scales and the nature of an instrument, with its pedals or strings or skins. I never suggested you should throw out your heart-felt expressions. I meant that you might give your heart even more free rein, if you would choose your vocabulary with an ear and eye to the nature of language and its effect on the unknown reader.

Nothing in what I wrote implied that I feel it better to 'harbor anger or hatred' than to practice forgiveness. This is a separate realm wholly from the one I was trying to address.
Why, you are like an oxen who will not be yoked, and want to plow a 'heart-felt' row. Your writing in your response to me shows that you are able to express yourself well. And certainly you used your mind to do it. Poetry is different from any other use of language. It is not just the shape of it on the page.

Ah well, it will be fruitless if we argue. You will be in good company here, for many reasons.

Adios,
Andmymare
P.S. Look, language is something you can also play with, you know. I'm not liking to sound so dour.
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Chris Ripple
[Sat May 10, 2008 10:48 pm]
Now here's the thing. It's that second paragraph that scares me somewhat.

"I have no problem with what you do with your life; It is for you to decide what is best for you".

Now that would imply some aspect of 'personal responsibility' and I thank you for it, for it would seem we are in complete agreement.
You later wrote

"and we must be able to think for ourselves as to what is correct and what is not".

Again, we are in complete agreement.

However I do have a slight problem with

"A man who is violent is either mentally disturbed or deranged (and hence he cannot be held responsible for his actions) or he sincerely believes that what he is doing is right".

Am I to assume then, that this 'forgiveness' is mine to bestow when one of those mentally disturbed, deranged or sincere in their belief persons are trying to kill or maim me, and do I bestow it before or after I have either decided on evasive action or brute force, whichever seems appropriate at the time. I only ask because if you deny them personal responsibility for any of their actions you will be visiting upon this world more downright evil than it has so far seen in a millenium... And if you look around you at things that are currently occuring in this world of ours I think you'll find we have enough of that already ?

There are no 'Get out of jail free' cards. The excuses have all been used up.
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'He was born with a gift of laughter... And a sense that the world was mad'

Rafael Sabatini
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Logicus tracticus
[Sun May 11, 2008 12:22 am] Re lanquage..
Feel this could benefit from a few rewrites, changing a phrase here and there, moving a few commas around. then looking at it in a different light.. had a sort of play around
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scarletdancer
[Sun May 11, 2008 1:31 am]
But, I would like to ask anyone. If your child was murdered, would you be forgiving of that person for mudering them? I consider myself a very forgiving person, but I don't think I could forgive them in this case. Or do we forgive the action by which they were taken but not the person?
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Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as a heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors.
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